In this inaugural episode, our panel of experts in both architecture and education delves into the multifaceted concept of Student Success, focusing on various dimensions such as personal, academic, and social achievements. Joining the discussion are Dr. Joel Peterson, Aurora Ayala, Jennifer Gibb, Andrea Stalker, and Jeff Johnson who share their unique perspectives on how built environments, facilities management, and inclusive design contribute to better educational outcomes. Their conversation covers theoretical frameworks like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, practical insights into maintaining and constructing effective educational spaces under San Diego’s Measure HH, and evidence-based design principles. The episode emphasizes the importance of creating safe, sustainable, and inclusive environments that foster student success. Episode Guide: 00:00 Introduction and Overview 01:04 Meet the Panelists 05:35 Defining Student Success 09:57 The Role of Physical Environment in Student Success 11:43 Challenges and Considerations in Design 17:07 Maslow's Hierarchy and Student Needs 24:15 Case Studies and Real-World Applications 33:34 Success Stories and Impact 37:30 Conclusion and Closing Remarks The Student Success: Built by Design is a production of San Diego Community College District and is produced by University FM. Episode Quotes: The launchpad for transforming generations 34:18 [Dr. Joel Peterson] We have clearly been the launchpad and the initial important trajectory that has set people to not only transform their lives, but to circle completely back and start being part of the process of transforming the next generation of student lives. And those are not apocryphal rare stories, they are quite a lot. SDCCD leading in student return on investment 36:38: [Andrea Stalker] What is so inspiring about San Diego Community College District is you guys are already doing it so well… [37:01] Your three conferences, colleges ranked second, third, and fourth in the state for return on investment for your students. On removing the architectural roadblocks to learning 20:12 [Dr. Joel Peterson] The things that we do probably do not have a direct link to student success. But the things that we do can have a direct link to stopping student success. If we don’t make it safe, if we do not make it inclusive, if we do not give it a sense of creativity, you know, then no matter what that teacher does in the classroom, no matter what the teaching tools are, how strong the microscope, you know, how good the planetarium, that we can block that learning, that success, that fulfillment and achievement from happening. Show Links: San Diego Community College District Measure HH | SDCCD Bond Measure HH | LinkedIn Aurora Ayala | SDCCD Article Jennifer Gibb | LinkedIn Jeff Johnson | Contact Joel Peterson | LinkedIn Andrea Stalker | LinkedIn PBK Architects
In this inaugural episode, our panel of experts in both architecture and education delves into the multifaceted concept of Student Success, focusing on various dimensions such as personal, academic, and social achievements. Joining the discussion are Dr. Joel Peterson, Aurora Ayala, Jennifer Gibb, Andrea Stalker, and Jeff Johnson who share their unique perspectives on how built environments, facilities management, and inclusive design contribute to better educational outcomes.
Their conversation covers theoretical frameworks like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, practical insights into maintaining and constructing effective educational spaces under San Diego’s Measure HH, and evidence-based design principles. The episode emphasizes the importance of creating safe, sustainable, and inclusive environments that foster student success.
Episode Guide:
The Student Success: Built by Design is a production of San Diego Community College District and is produced by University FM.
The launchpad for transforming generations
34:18 [Dr. Joel Peterson] We have clearly been the launchpad and the initial important trajectory that has set people to not only transform their lives, but to circle completely back and start being part of the process of transforming the next generation of student lives. And those are not apocryphal rare stories, they are quite a lot.
SDCCD leading in student return on investment
36:38: [Andrea Stalker] What is so inspiring about San Diego Community College District is you guys are already doing it so well… [37:01] Your three conferences, colleges ranked second, third, and fourth in the state for return on investment for your students.
On removing the architectural roadblocks to learning
20:12 [Dr. Joel Peterson] The things that we do probably do not have a direct link to student success. But the things that we do can have a direct link to stopping student success. If we don’t make it safe, if we do not make it inclusive, if we do not give it a sense of creativity, you know, then no matter what that teacher does in the classroom, no matter what the teaching tools are, how strong the microscope, you know, how good the planetarium, that we can block that learning, that success, that fulfillment and achievement from happening.
[00:00:00] Jeff Johnson: Student Success Built By Design, expanding the human potential for today’s students.
Welcome to Student Success Built by Design. In this podcast, we will explore the fundamental question of how the built environment impacts student success. We will showcase specific design and build achievements of the San Diego Community College District's $3.5 billion Bond Measure HH, whose goal is to further our education and student success mission by designing and constructing learning environments that don't simply host students, but elevate them academically, personally, and socially. Therefore, we design with a clear purpose and build with vision.
[00:44:03] Jeff Johnson: So, welcome to today's episode. We are going to be talking about the core area of student success. That's the lens that we look through. So, what is student success? So, today, we're going to be taking a journey into the student experience in education. We'll explore essential elements at the core, debate about how they work and don't work, and demonstrate pathways to overcome current obstacles.
So, today, we have Dr. Joel Peterson, San Diego Community College District Vice Chancellor and Executive Operations Officer. We have Aurora Ayala, San Diego Community College District Associate Vice Chancellor for Facilities, Risk Management, and Operations. We also have Jennifer Gibb, Van Pelt Construction Services Vice President, Business Development. And we have Andrea Stalker, PBK Principal, Director of Higher Education, and myself, Jeff Johnson, PBK Principal and Director of Design and Educational Planning.
So, what I'd like to do is have each of our guests give a little bit of a description about some of their background as a guest, and also kind of particular subject and why this is important to them. So, Dr. Peterson.
[00:01:55] Dr. Joel Peterson: Thank you, Jeff. I've had a number of different kinds of roles, but this is one of the most fascinating ones that I've been in, overseeing a large $3.5 billion capital program. Measure HH is a bond program that our voters who entrusted in our district to convert into a set of built environments that will help our students succeed.
My Ph.D. research was primarily in what are the factors that cause similar types of students to have different education outcomes. What are the factors that have the impact, and what can be done to mitigate and to elevate elements of their environment that could help them have greater and better education success and outcomes? My final dissertation focused also on, sort of, how executive leadership at the higher education level and administration can bring resources to bear that ultimately make the difference with student education outcomes, that are supported by the research that shows what are the factors that will have the most impact.
[00:02:55] Jeff Johnson: That's great. Aurora, what are some of your thoughts?
[00:02:58] Aurora Ayala: Thanks, Jeff. Similar to Dr. Peterson, I've had different roles, but I can tell you that the role that I'm in right now is probably the most important role that I have because every single thing that we do here touches the student and their future and their family and the generations to come. I've also had the privilege of being the director of facilities, so I also get to see hands-on the impact of what we built and how we continue to maintain it for our students. So, I'm excited to be here and ready to get into it.
[00:03:32] Jeff Johnson: Excellent. Jennifer, what are your thoughts on the topic?
[00:03:35] Jennifer Gibb: Thank you, Jeff. I'm very excited. I think my entire career has been in school facilities, and finance, and construction, and I love that. I've always been able to support education, and with education, the importance of that is behind creating facilities that ultimately create success for our students. So, very excited to be here to talk about how the things that we build are going to support the success for students in the community and everyone with Measure HH.
[00:04:11] Jeff Johnson: And Andrea.
[00:04:12] Andrea Stalker: Yeah. Thanks, Jeff. I would say for me, for the past five years, I've really been focused on equity-centered and inclusive design for higher education facilities and how that's different from how we used to design before that, and understanding this lens, how can we really elevate and improve student success then through intentional and evidence-based design?
We're building up such a body of research about what we've been doing right, but also what we've been doing wrong, and so how we can then take that and apply it to our new buildings and renovations and all these things here that Measure HH will do so that we can really help elevate students to their next level of success, both personally, socially, academic, professionally.
[00:04:53] Jeff Johnson: And I think for me, I've been designing colleges and universities through the years, and I think the creating transformative spaces, you know, the idea that the power that education has to change the trajectory of a person, for where they've been, and then how architecture facilitates that. But the conversation of educator and architect, we really need to be talking the same things, and then how we partner with contractors and builders to actually see that done.
So, it's interesting is this conversation we're getting into, like the real human application or the human-centered approach of what are the critical elements, and I think it's exciting to have this opportunity to really get into the depth of it. So, as we're getting into these things, as we're talking about student success, it's like, "Well, how do we define that?" And so, that's one of the things it'd be good to get a better grip on from all of our perspectives. So, how are we defining student success, and then how does that actually compare to what we might've defined in the past versus what we might be talking about?
[00:05:56] Dr. Joel Peterson: Jeff, that's a really good point. If we don't have the same vernacular and the same meanings, it's hard to communicate. And one of the things that, in academic research, you learn very quickly is that we need to define what the theoretical lens is that we're going to be viewing a situation and trying to frame it. You know, as an example, a Newtonian world where you just had the kind of physics that Newton had come up with is a different theoretical lens than what Einstein came up with, where time was not a constant.
So, it can vastly change how you perceive and, therefore, how you can understand and ultimately how you might resolve and solve certain situations. In this situation, I would suggest that the best way to frame student success is not with a single measure, but maybe in three domains. You know, we would look at it as a personal success as well as academic success because many of our students are also pursuing professional certificates, skill sets, et cetera. So, academic, slant, professional, and the last domain would be probably social.
If a student is highly successful as a person, they're happy, they meet all their, kind of, personal needs, but they don't succeed academically, that's not a good outcome. They don't get the outcomes that they want here at the college. If they succeed socially, very popular, lots of friends, but ultimately are not able to get the degrees that they want, or the certificates, and cannot move forward with a career, that's not success.
So, we look at as all three of these areas combined together would define the totality of student success, and some students are going to be a little more successful in one area than another, and that's okay, but you just can't have it where they're only successful in one or two, and abject failures in something else.
The final theoretical portion that I might suggest is that if you think of sort of the student success being a disc, or a crucible that has the three elements that are intertwined in it, but that is standing on a column that is supporting it, and that column is made up of a set of needs that are met.
And the most famous one that most people have probably heard of, we may not have known the details, is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And this is looking at from the most basic need that says safety, shelter, and food. And the next level would be, you know, additional components that talk about sense of belonging, a sense of interactivity, those kinds of things.
Just as an example, you might say is that if you could have a space that's very beautiful and meets the aesthetic needs that we might have as a human being, but if it's built in the middle of a jungle where there are dangerous animals and there's no fencing to protect you, that may not meet your first basic need, and you may not really be able to appreciate the beauty and the aspirational and inspirational aspects of it. And that's where I believe that our designing and building and operating part comes in. We ourselves, a built environment, probably doesn't lead directly to personal success, or social success, or academic success.
There are other tools and programs that will do that, but we create this foundation that meet the various kinds of needs from the most basic to the most inspirational and aspirational that would allow the actual needs to be met without this set of needs being met that we can design and build to. That's where I think the link between the physical environment and student success really comes through, and that would be the thesis that I would suggest that may be the best lens through which we have our discussions.
[00:09:37] Jeff Johnson: No, that's awesome. And it really frames in what we've been talking about, about personal and professional, and, kind of, what we are trained for as architects is in the physical architecture. But as we, kind of, get into more detail and mature as architects, the idea of social architecture is about the people and what are the environments and where we can, kind of, marry those together.
So, Andrea, what are some of the critical parts of, like, physical architecture that can help, kind of, hold up, or house some of these thoughts?
[00:10:57] Andrea Stalker: Yeah. Well, as we think of student success as social, personal, and academic and professional, that the physical architecture can and should support each of those elements, right? And so, if you create spaces that help people interact, small group areas, collaboration spaces, meeting rooms that can support not only socialization, but a different type of learning, right?
If you were talking about personal mental health and wellbeing, the physical architecture, environment around access to daylight views, warmth of textures, patterns, colors that are appealing and not aggressive, all of those can have a pretty direct impact on people's mental health, especially when you think of how much time students can spend in these spaces on any given day. And so, ensuring that environment is uplifting them rather than, not oppressing them, but, you know, like bringing people down.
And so, I think while Dr. Peterson said we cannot directly affect, I do think that built environment does have a fairly direct effect, often on people's day-to-day mood and environment, and just if you're in a good environment, you can have a better day, and if you're in a terrible environment, you can have a worse day. And there's, sort of, there is a foundation to that that the architecture and the place can bring.
[00:11:23] Jeff Johnson: Yeah, there's kind of that cognitive sense that people either feel safe or they don't, or they feel like they can collaborate or they don't. Is it social? You know, so it's, kind of, interesting how physical space affects behavior and performance. Aurora, what are some of the thoughts, student perspective, and what you might've seen on campus, and how the impact you've seen so far?
[00:13:09] Aurora Ayala: It's interesting to hear Andrea talk about from the architectural perspective for student success because I'm hearing it, and all I'm thinking about all the architects and some of the areas that they have designed that are beautiful, that are welcoming to students, that, from a facilities perspective, it's hard for us to maintain. It's not the right material. There's not line of sight for faculty or anyone passing by, so becomes a safety issue.
And what was intended to be a success area, whether it's a common area for our students to feel comfortable and just collaborate, starts to become, from a facilities perspective, we have to put some standards. We need to put, let's put a camera, like it takes away from the intent of what it was originally intended for. So, for me, student success during design is make it safe. Make it safe for the students, but make it safe for the administration staff. Make it safe for the student to be comfortable, but also make it sustainable for the facilities department to be able to replace that torn couch, replace that torn cushion.
So, that way, it's not just success for the student for the first two to three years of the life of the product, but success for the student that was intended for the life of the building, this, you know, 10, 15 years.
[00:15:00] Jeff Johnson: And Jennifer, as we're talking about some of these type of spaces and physical environment, what are some of the thoughts relating to, from a construction standpoint, and maybe even some obstacles that we see on existing campuses, or even maybe some designs that you've seen?
[00:15:15] Jennifer Gibb: Lots of things are going through my head right now. I think it's important that, from a building standpoint, we're thinking about the overall income rate. It's for our students, it's for the community. But how are we going to get there? We need to stay on budget, we need to stay on schedule.
As Aurora mentioned, we can't build something beautiful and in five years not be able to maintain it. And so, thinking about all those things while also understanding that when we're building these amazing spaces, we want them to inspire the next generation. We want them to be able to always go back to the student and that success in the community. It's the person, the social, the professional, all of those. And so, we're managing that.
And, you know, that three-legged stool — scope, budget, and schedule — we want to make all three happen. And so, being very thoughtful of how to do that, I believe that you can have all three, and if you work collaboratively with the team and the stakeholders that are all in it for the right reason, which is for student success.
[00:14:32] Dr. Joel Peterson: In my mind, the whole point of what we're trying to do with this podcast and the series is to help address what I get asked a lot from constituents in the community and taxpayers who have voted themselves in enormous tax.
And they say, "Well, how does building things and renovating things, refurbishing things, translate into students graduating, students learning, students getting certificates, students getting employment, moving to a sustainable middle-class life, and contributing to their life and to the life of the community at large? How does that happen?" And it feels a little bit premature for us to jump into, like, where should we put the investment, you know, bedrooms versus classrooms versus part of, I think, what we're trying to get at this, if I could, kind of, go back to my being the egghead here.
[00:15:24] Jeff Johnson: No, by all means.
[00:17:16] Dr. Joel Peterson: Maybe it's helpful. I mentioned Maslow's hierarchy. And so, basically, it's put into a number of categories where these needs are. So, our theory really is saying is, if we don't undermine these needs, then the education program, the way that our curriculum is set up, the way that our professors and teachers are trained, and the way that they have their tools for teaching, and the way that the students are self-motivated, and that we give them support and emotional elements to keep that self-motivation going.
But what we're saying is that our job is to ensure that we don't impede that and that we can help directly if we can. Where does this come in is one layer. The most basic layer is what is known as the physiological needs. This is simply breathing, food, water, shelter. Try learning when you can, and there's no oxygen in the room, a little bit difficult. I took a college degree. Next layer is safety and security. So, yes, you can have water and food and shelter, but, you know, your water and food is also surrounded by lots of sharks, you know, not very safe and secure.
So, you want to make sure that you're in an environment where your health is maintained, where things like you have a path to employment, that you can own property, that what is yours remains yours, people can't take it away, that you have an ability to interact socially, that you're not isolated, you know, by yourself as an individual.
The next level is love and belonging, that it isn't just good enough to have food and water and be safe. That if you are isolated. And that's why certainly we could all say that, you know, our prisons meet all the breathing and food, and water, and shelter, and clothing, and sleep, and safety, they may have that, but there's not a whole lot of love and belonging. And then certainly someplace like a prison doesn't support the next category, which is self-esteem. Does the space give you a sense of confidence? Does it make you feel that you have achievement because you're part of this space? As an example of a space that wouldn't give you confidence, if you had a mezzanine level that overlooked, you know, 30-foot drop, and there was no railing. Well, it could be beautiful, and it could be overall safe, but it wouldn't give you confidence because you feel like you could fall off because there's no railings, there's no guidelines.
So, those are the kind of things that says, you know, "How can we design and build to ensure that we aren't undermining these stages?" And the final stages is what's called self-actualization. Fancy way of saying that it allows people to be creative, that it can support spontaneity, that it can give meaning and help people understand their inner potential. Some add into this category things like beauty and spirituality, you know.
And we see that. I mean, any one of us who's ever gone to a, you know, a cathedral like, you know, Notre-Dame in Paris, you walk in there and it certainly, it's a built space that gives you that sense of spirituality and a sense of something bigger. So, I just wanted to, kind of, ground us back to some of the, to say "This is what we do." I would suggest that things that we do probably don't have a direct link to student success. But what the things that we do can have a direct link to is stopping student success.
If we don't make it safe, if we don't make it inclusive, if we don't give it a sense of creativity, you know, then no matter what that teacher does in the classroom, no matter what the teaching tools are, how strong the microscope, you know, how good the planetarium, that we can block that learning, that success, that fulfillment and achievement from happening. And so, I might suggest that we, as we talk through each of our specialty areas, that we talk about how maybe we have learned in the past we used to do X, but what we learned was that that undermined self-esteem, that undermined a sense of love and belonging. It didn't allow families to be connected, you know, if all we have is single student housing, you know, what does that do for student families? That sort of thing.
[00:19:30] Aurora Ayala: Real quick, just right now that I'm hearing Dr. Peterson say, let's bring it back. Right under Measure HH, we have dedicated funds for capital renovations and replacements. And what that means to our community and to our students is we're not using, we call it Region III, because it's a district-wide program. We're not building new buildings with that, with those funds. We're actually doing upgrades, replacement of equipment, and renovations. We talk about safety.
Dr. Peterson, I was thinking about the lighting projects that we're doing district-wide, that we're looking at dark places where students may feel unsafe, or we have to look at lighting in a different way, where it can show motion sensors, that way it lets people know there's somebody there. It's those little things that may seem little, but it's a large project, but it will help a student get from that side of the building to the other side at night and feel safe.
[00:20:27] Dr. Joel Peterson: Aurora, I really liked your… And we brought up about the maintainability, and I know Jennifer mentioned as well, but that's such a, you know, we think about the materials that you specify and that they use. You know, if it's some kind of a wood, but if over time it deteriorates and splinters, now suddenly, you know, you have, you're creating hazards, you're creating issues.
People won't use handrails if they're getting splinters from them. And so, it really goes to your whole point of the maintainability, and then what you have to do that isn't just initially building it, but thinking about how it wears. And if during that, where we're creating new hazards that have to be mitigated in unique ways.
[00:21:05] Jennifer Gibb: And even Aurora on this, the lighting, I mean, that's a safety component, but it's also a sustainability component as well. And so, creating energy efficiencies with that is helping not only the safety of our students, but also reducing our operational impact on the college and the district. And so, therefore, those monies for operations can go back to the students for increased program support. So, there's lots of opportunity.
And when we think about facilities and the improvements that we make or the renovations and upgrades, how that's going to trickle down and support student success, it could be as simple as that, reducing operations on the capital side so that you can put it back into the program and instructional side of the house.
[00:21:54] Jeff Johnson: That's a great point because, you know, reducing consumption actually gives you more flexibility with your funding to put it elsewhere. And I think we're, kind of, getting into is kind of the idea of evidence-based design, and what are the specific things that we, kind of, are going to make the biggest impact that impact the student success, and also, maybe are simple in design. I know, Andrea, you had talked about that topic and also equity inclusion. What are some of the evidence-based design concepts that we typically, kind of, work with?
[00:22:23] Dr. Joel Peterson: Jeff, I have a hard time keeping a cogent thought, so I thought, what if I have one? Let me get [crosstalk 00:24:19].
[00:22:28] Jeff Johnson: No, no. Go for it. We can always edit.
[00:22:31] Dr. Joel Peterson: And it goes away there. But since this is our launching episode, could we maybe just address a little bit about, I think you, sort of, brought it up, Jeff, also Andrea talking about some of the changes and what's been happening and the trends and based on the evidence, based on what's happening, it feels like what this series may be looking to do as we go forward, as we keep using sort of the theoretical framework as a touchstone that says, "Hey, given, remember we talked about X in the theory, where is that? How is that being evidenced here?" Would it make sense for us in future episodes to maybe identify projects that we have in our bond Measure HH? And maybe pick and choose some of them to be sort of case studies that can highlight how did this design or this part of construction or how we focused on the maintainability of it, you know, really focused on the self-esteem, the confidence and the achievement part, where maybe another project was more focused on purely safety and security or something else was more about, you know, the aspirational side of things.
Say a performing arts complex is going to be different and probably focus more on self-actualization and creativity and spontaneity than would a student housing project, which may have more on safety and security and love and belonging. So, it feels like if we can come up with some of these and maybe introduce a few in the future episodes, and then walk our listeners through how we think those projects are ideal for certain elements of our theoretical framework, this foundational pillar that gives the support for the three elements of student success.
[00:24:17] Andrea Stalker: And so, what I appreciate about that, Dr. Peterson, I think this framework works both in a macro and a micro sense, right? And that some projects from a macro perspective are going to be seeking to meet kind of a macro need, right? Your student housing is fundamentally trying to address the need for shelter, or food pantries on your campus, the need for food, right? Or one could even argue your early education centers is almost a safety and security for single parents who just need to know that their students are safe and secure somewhere before they can learn, right?
And that's a project addressing a macro foundational need. But we can also look at each project through the whole pyramid of needs and say, "How within each project can we design a building to ensure that it supports a student feeling safe, or having a sense of belonging, or supporting creativity or socialization?" And so, we can do both of these. And I think I'm very excited then to explore these at both the macro and micro level of how a project can meet not only then these foundational needs, but then build up towards that student success, right?
And understanding that where we create spaces that students feel like they have a sense of belonging, they're more likely to show up. So, we're not impeding that, right, and then therefore can succeed in their studies.
[00:25:32] Jennifer Gibb: One thing going to Andrea's point and Dr. Peterson's earlier point was why we're improving this space, because the existing space was not lending well towards student success. And maybe because we want to highlight the wonderful things we're doing with Measure HH and how those are improving, we're able to kind of pinpoint or highlight a couple of the things we would like to improve and why they're going to be better might be an opportunity as well.
[00:26:03] Andrea Stalker: So, Dr. Peterson, as the more and more we've been talking about this is Maslow's hierarchy as being our foundational needs, and I found myself asking, like, the fundamental question, well, why is Maslow's hierarchy still valid after all these years, and something that we should spend all this time talking and discussing the implications of design and how it affects student success?
[00:26:23] Dr. Joel Peterson: A part of the reason why it's so relevant is that it was one of those groundbreaking theoretical frameworks that applies. One, it's so intuitively obvious, but at the same time, articulating it was important. And what's happened over the years since it was first brought forth is there's been a lot of research to validate these things. And it has come out that reproducibly being able to validate it.
Now, the criticism has been, though, that, you know, Maslow's original theoretical framework tended to be what in psychology they call, you know, for weird people. And that's the criticism for most psychology, that all the research is done with weird people, which means white, educated, industrialized, rich, and developed societies.
And that, you know, it's harder to then generalize this across poor, less industrialized, less educated, less wealthy societies and subgroups. And so, part of the criticism that we could probably, and that has been leveled with this sort of theoretical framework is that different cultures have different emphasis on something between, say, individualism versus collectivism. Many societies put family well before individual, and that there isn't a sense of individual freedom without a sense of benefit to family.
And I think it will be important, as we talk about some of our case studies, that we can highlight some of this and that we are trying in the evidence-based, and this we talked about being inclusive and that trying to bring an equity lens and not just an equality lens, saying that we need to be aware of the different cultural frameworks that people are approaching. That, even though there is a hierarchy and certainly at each end nobody says, you know, "You can get away without oxygen, or without water," but things in the middle are a little more fluid, and that's something that I am looking forward to exploring with this group as we discuss some of the individual projects on a case-by-case basis.
[00:28:27] Andrea Stalker: And I think that's also why in the design process that input from so many different stakeholders, students, faculty, staff, facilities, the community, in that everyone does bring a diverse perspective.
And that diversity and inclusivity, we can understand where those differences are and make sure that we're not going to be able to design for everyone at every time, but to be able to ensure that we're accommodating your students and your community and really addressing meeting them where they're at, and not just kind of a top-down enforcement of like, "Well, this is what we think you need," so this is what we're providing, but really saying, "What do you need?" Right? And making, getting that input, and then bringing it back.
[00:29:07] Dr. Joel Peterson: It's a really important point in making, Andrea, because we know our demographics, our student population is very different than what you would have at an Ivy, or even mainstream four-year institution. And so, we're probably not going to have a lot of colonial, classical red brick and white columns because, you know, our students don't maybe resonate with that, and it wouldn't feel something that makes them feel like they belong. So, it's going to be fun and interesting to talk about that.
[00:29:34] Aurora Ayala: I think I'm very selfish when I speak for my area, which is the facilities operations area, because when I'm sitting in the planning and programming and I'm hearing our faculty, and sometimes we have the privilege of having students and our architect firms there, and they're designing and planning out this new building, they're looking at this building, and I am thinking of all the buildings that we've service, all the buildings that we service, all the issues that we deal with. And I sit there, and I listen to what some of our staff members are wanting to decide for design for student success.
And I have to just, kind of, take a pause, listen in, because from those ideas, we could divert into, you know, fine-tuning their ideas, or making sure that we can maintain whatever we're building. But one of the things that I'm always very careful is we don't want to design for an architect to be able to put on the portfolio, and we want to design-
[00:30:39] Andrea Stalker: 100%.
[00:30:40] Jeff Johnson: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:30:41] Aurora Ayala: … 100% for our district and our campus-specific and sometimes building-specific. Like Dr. Peterson may mention, the buildings, like not every building on every campus, on every address has the same needs and demands to be able to achieve student success. So, I think we have a great thing that's going to happen here. I hope anyone that listens in realizes that we really care about our students, every single one of us here, and everything that we do.
[00:31:10] Jeff Johnson: Well, I was going to touch on that. You have such a great story, you know, the impact that you've had on your community, individual students, and the passion that I see and the conversations we've been having. And, you know, seeing that story being played out, I was just curious, are there particular stories that you could share with the audience? For instance, like with architecture, a lot of times what we try to do is co-design, is really understanding the client, which in our perspective, it's actually the student, because they're paying, kind of, all of our wages.
And so, to really understand that, I think that's one great thing about this topic, and what we're talking about is bring that passion out. So, I was just curious, are there particular stories of certain students of success that they've seen from what they've already done?
[00:31:55] Dr. Joel Peterson: It's interesting that, kind of, we have some very inspirational student stories. And just one example is we have two of our members of our board of trustees who started out as students at San Diego City College. One of them now, having, you know, as faculty at San Diego State, she got her master's in public health from Columbia. And then we have another one of our trustees who actually is a chief of staff for one of our county supervisors.
And she too got a master's from an Ivy League college after completing here at the San Diego Community College District and then moving on to San Diego State and earning her four-year degree. So, we have clearly been the launchpad and the initial important trajectory that has set people to not only transform their lives, but to circle completely back and start being part of the process of transforming the next generation of student lives. And those are not apocryphal, rare stories. They're quite a lot.
Can we make improvements? Do we need to make improvements? Do we need to have more students succeed? The answer is yes. Some of our numbers are a little bit hard to reconcile at times. Because, unlike a four-year school, where you can have 95% graduation rates, we don't have anything near that. But that's also because, you know, 30% of our students are not even in that degree program. And many of our students were taking courses in degree programs.
They're doing it because they're in Cal State or UC, University of California, and they can't get the general ed classes because they're too impacted, so they'll take them at our colleges. But they're not trying to pursue a degree out of our college, so the numbers can be skewed. So, it's hard for us to sometimes track, you know, what student success looks like as easily that you can at other institutions, or just look at how many started, how many finished. There you go. We have to look at it in a much more nuanced and complex way, looking at different kinds of measures of success, such as the personal success.
People feel that they have been able to have their children looked after, that they have come away with a sense of belonging, and a group of people that they feel connected to. And then ultimately, that they can move on to not feeling insecure about housing or food, that they have a sustainable job and a career that is going to support their family and themselves. So, I'm excited to explore these topics and to bring up the examples that we have because it's really quite uplifting and inspirational.
[00:34:26] Aurora Ayala: I think we have to appreciate Dr. Peterson because-
[00:34:30] Jeff Johnson: Absolutely.
[00:34:29] Aurora Ayala: … you mentioned examples, and he brings up positive examples.
[00:34:33] Jeff Johnson: Well, I think one word that comes up is the idea of hope, you know, that you are actually providing a platform to maybe see something in themselves that they didn't before, you know, we're talking about creating safe environments, but this idea to explore someone's capacity, you know, maybe they're coming from generational poverty or wherever that might be, and sometimes economics plays a hard part in their identity. And what's interesting about some of these things is, wow, people having a second chance to rebuild, renew, or see something that they've never done. So, I think it's great having those stories of, kind of, moving forward.
[00:35:09] Andrea Stalker: And I think what's so inspiring about San Diego Community College District is you guys are already doing it so well, right? In that August report that ranked all 327 two-year, public-private institutions in California, your three conferences colleges ranked second, third, and fourth in the state for return on investment for your students.
And that's amazing, right? Like, so to be already that recognized and doing something this well and to say like, "Yes, you are doing it well, but how can you do it even better as we then look at the built environment to support that type of education that your students are getting because it really is a launching platform to sending them into the community on their way towards success in life." Right? And that's so great to see, and then to get to explore with you guys.
[00:35:51] Jeff Johnson: This has been a great session, and I know we're coming to a close, and I really want to just say, well, we thank you to Dr. Peterson, Aurora Ayala, Jennifer Gibb, and Andrea Stalker. Really appreciate this time.
[00:36:05] Dr. Joel Peterson: Thank you, Jeff.
[00:36:06] Aurora Ayala: Thank you.
[00:36:10] Jeff Johnson: Thanks for joining our podcast, Student Success Built by Design. This series is brought to you by the San Diego Community College District and its Measure HH Bond Program, whose goal is to further its education and student success mission. We'll see you next time.
Measure HH is a $3.5 billion voter-approved capital improvement fund program at the San Diego Community College District, transforming its 10 campuses, which are housed in four separate colleges that collectively enroll 90,000 students annually. Measure HH will impact nearly 1 million students in its first 10 years.